Baphomet
Friends on The Other Side
Posts: 178
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Post by Baphomet on Aug 16, 2021 4:49:52 GMT
MY GUESSES AT VOTES...
HERMES- MAAT & HATHOR ELORITU- JESUS CERBERUS- MAAT & HATHOR P&D- JESUS JAEL- JESUS PERSEPHONE- MAAT & HATHOR ATHENA- MAAT & HATHOR POPPY- MAAT & HATHOR HADES- MAAT & HATHOR
SO BASED ON THIS, MAAT & HATHOR WOULD WIN. I COULD SEE MYSELF BEING WRONG ABOUT PERSEPHONE AND MAYBE HERMES IF HE'S INFLUENCED BY JAEL. THAT'S PROBABLY JESUS' BEST PATH. CERB, ATHENA, POPPY, AND HADES SEEM LIKE THEY SHOULD BE SOLID M&H VOTES GOING IN, BUT WITH A BAD FTC, IT'S POSSIBLE THEY CHANGE. WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.
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Post by Anansi on Aug 16, 2021 5:52:49 GMT
HONESTLY THIS GAME JUST HAS ME DOWN ON HYDRAS AS A CONCEPT. ESPECIALLY IF MAAT/HATHOR WIN, I REALLY THINK WE NEED TO RECONSIDER THEM. HAVING SOMEONE TO BOUNCE IDEAS OFF OF IS SUCH A HUGE ADVANTAGE, AND IT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO SUCCEED WITHOUT BEING GOOD AT ALL PARTS OF THE GAME. THAT IS VERY QUESTIONABLE TO ME. 1. Since when are winners good at all parts of the game? Some might be but people usually win by mastering a corner and not floundering the rest. I know I'm not good at all parts of the game and I don't think any of the hydras as a whole are either. 2. I really don't think it's that big of an advantage. Then again for something to be a considerable advantage I'd assume you'd have to be able to put like no effort into it and it still working out really well. We can see with F/K that it requires even more than that as you have to put a lot of effort into balancing the styles of yourself and your partner. M&H's success is because they've put A LOT of effort into making sure they don't hamstring each other. I think putting that much effort into reflecting on your own game would produce similar results for most people. 3. Even with that...M/H had the third, maybe even fourth most win equity at F5, like they got the right path to the end, but they could easily be in a spot where they were heavily disadvantaged here. 4. The basis of this idea also implies M/H don't have the requisite skills to do this well on their own, and there I'd be hard pressed to say that's correct. I would say the hydra might have enabled them to reach their full potential, but once again, that's only because they handled it extremely well and put a lot of effort in. 5. I dunno, it feels like the logical extension of this criticism is "I'm fine with hydras so long as they suck" and uh...definitely not comfy with that mindset. But like yeah where is the brightline on where it is like comfy if you are on the fence?
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Post by Anansi on Aug 16, 2021 6:33:11 GMT
That being said, if there's a significant group of people who just don't want hydras well, then, by allowing hydras you could end up causing even more people to not be able to play than people you gain. And if that's the case, well then it's just not smart, not to mention I'm never in favor of hydras every game, since then you'd just be blacklisting a subset of players from ever playing again. Also, any game that allows hydras is going to have this discussion again crop up multiple times, especially since at least some people in the spec forum will be peeps who specifically didn't play because of the hydras, so at what point that is still worth it is also a question for me. I'm not sure I want to deal with it again even if I do ardently support hydras.
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Post by Bilious on Aug 16, 2021 7:48:11 GMT
Can I be cast in a Hydra to experience it first hand before we right them all off?
I assume it's the same type of people that are against them in Mafia games that are against them here.
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Bacchus
Friends on The Other Side
Posts: 64
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Post by Bacchus on Aug 16, 2021 11:23:49 GMT
dhow amany consecutive ghames does aa hnydra need to win before youd’ll cahnge uyor thinking on thhis
(becausxe tyhe imprekssion ni have here is that sthey’re gonan bseat jesus very hsandily her)e
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Post by Fili & Kili on Aug 16, 2021 12:07:57 GMT
I mean... One hydra has won before this. This'll make that 2 if they win. (I'll skip over the fact those aren't consecutive )
It's definitely a higher % than of normal players, but it's also generally been quite good players.
Toko - Went out immediately - 1 former winner, 1 player who went on to win afterward
Korekiyo - premerge - 1 former winner
FlimFlam - Merge boot - 2 former winners Lindsay&Lindsay - premerge - Pablito, need I say more
Droids - midmerge - 1 player who went on to win the next game
T&H - Won - 1 former winner, and the other player came 2nd and 4th in their only other 2 games
F&K - premerge - (no winners but came 7th and 4th in the last game)
P&D - midmerge - ?
M&H - 1st or 2nd - ?
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Bacchus
Friends on The Other Side
Posts: 64
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Post by Bacchus on Aug 16, 2021 12:18:15 GMT
whoen you only count gamies wthat actuaqlly had hydras in themm then sey, they wwere consecutive
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Post by Bilious on Aug 16, 2021 22:00:45 GMT
You also had TwoFace that went out premerge. (No winners in that one at the time, but one head has since won a game)
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Baphomet
Friends on The Other Side
Posts: 178
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Post by Baphomet on Aug 17, 2021 0:39:44 GMT
MAAT AND HATHOR THEMSELVES HAVE ADMITTED IN THEIR CONFESSIONAL THAT THEY BENEFITTED FROM BEING A HYDRA. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU FEEL THE NEED TO INSIST THAT THEY DIDN'T.
MANY PREVIOUS HYDRAS WERE FORMED BECAUSE THEIR HALVES WERE BUSY AND HAD ACTIVITY ISSUES, SO IT ISN'T A FAIR COMPARISON. IF A HYDRA WINS THIS GAME, THEN THEY'LL HAVE WON EVERY GAME WITH MULTIPLE ACTIVE HYDRAS.
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Baphomet
Friends on The Other Side
Posts: 178
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Post by Baphomet on Aug 17, 2021 0:47:39 GMT
I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHICH ONE IS MAAT AND WHICH HATHOR LOL
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Bacchus
Friends on The Other Side
Posts: 64
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Post by Bacchus on Aug 17, 2021 0:50:56 GMT
tfhe one witrh teh more obvious isdentity cwas iwnitially maact and is nnow hathor
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Bacchus
Friends on The Other Side
Posts: 64
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Post by Bacchus on Aug 17, 2021 0:56:42 GMT
tnot sure what takgin away our access tjo the finals’ist confessioasnl is supqposed to achieve
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Post by Anansi on Aug 17, 2021 0:56:56 GMT
MAAT AND HATHOR THEMSELVES HAVE ADMITTED IN THEIR CONFESSIONAL THAT THEY BENEFITTED FROM BEING A HYDRA. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU FEEL THE NEED TO INSIST THAT THEY DIDN'T. MANY PREVIOUS HYDRAS WERE FORMED BECAUSE THEIR HALVES WERE BUSY AND HAD ACTIVITY ISSUES, SO IT ISN'T A FAIR COMPARISON. IF A HYDRA WINS THIS GAME, THEN THEY'LL HAVE WON EVERY GAME WITH MULTIPLE ACTIVE HYDRAS. I never said they didn't benefit from it, I said they only benefitted because of putting a lot of effort into making it work. Also due to early game availability, Maat & Hathor did need the hydra to compete.
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Post by Anansi on Aug 17, 2021 0:58:40 GMT
tnot sure what takgin away our access tjo the finals’ist confessioasnl is supqposed to achieve It's more it's easier to take away access to all confessionals than do it confessional by confessional so you can't see any more premature votes. I can redo it for individual ones and then bring back the finalist ones once I'm done with that though.
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Post by Anansi on Aug 17, 2021 1:06:37 GMT
Should be fixed
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